Comments on: So “Illegal Immigrants” Are As Bad As “Legal” Immigrants?

By: RiPPa

RiPPa — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 22:12:00 +0000

Lorrie, a third grader can read that article and understand that it isn’t saying what you’ve been saying, or arguing for several weeks now. The article describes Latino workers in the building and construction industry — an indistry largely dominated by said demographic — that are gaining employment in OTHER industries they ALDO have been dominating.

Nice try, but the article clearly points this shift out. It
is disingenuous to use this article that points out in particular as representative of the whole. The gains as they have made are in low-paying, low-skilled service industry jobs – jobs they have always done.

This from the article:

“So far,* *Latinos are the only demographic group whose employment numbers have returned to pre-recession levels. The latest Latino jobless rate of 10.5% remains higher than the overall rate of 8.3% for the nation and 7.4% for whites, partly reflecting their large immigrant population (foreign-born U.S. workers tend to have higher unemployment because of a variety of factors) as well as education and skill levels.

The construction industry remains weak, but other sectors in which Latinos have a relatively large share of jobs — hotels, food services, healthcare and manufacturing, for example — are seeing more robust job growth.

Mining support services, where Latinos make up about a fifth of the
workers, are expanding employment significantly. And, because Latinos
account for a relatively small share of workers in the public sector, they
aren’t bearing the brunt of deep cuts in government jobs.”

FYI, the Public sector is accountable for more Black employment than any
other ethnic minority group!

More from the SAME article you wanted me to read:

“There are other reasons, experts say, why Latinos are faring better than
some other groups. For one thing, they might be more willing to take
low-wage, temporary jobs. And they tend to be more mobile, willing to move
from one county to another to get a job.

Some of the decline in Latino unemployment reflects the fact that many
discouraged workers have stopped looking for jobs. Also, with jobs
generally hard to find, fewer people are moving to the U.S. from Latin
America, and more are returning home. The result is a smaller pool of
workers who can more easily get employment.

As with other temporary workers, some Latinos may find that short-term jobs
are a path to full-time work. But for many others, low-wage, temporary jobs
don’t offer much opportunity for advancement or for the kind of income
needed to support a family.”

Clearly, you have a reading comprehension problem. Either that, or you’re
just too stubborn to admit when you’re wrong. Even worse, is that you make
an argument but aren’t able to provide any evidence to support it. As long
as this discussion has been going on, if I were you, I’d just quit and duck
my head in the sand after this one. I would because at this time, you’re
only making yourself look like a fool.

By: Lorrie

Lorrie — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 20:35:00 +0000

Not that I need to prove any damn thing to you but read this article below printed by Los Angeles Times…
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-latino-jobs-20120205,0,3008802.story
…notice the part that says exactly what I was saying, “Latinos have a relatively large share of jobs – hotels, food services, healthcare and manufacturing [jobs], for example – are seeing more robust job growth.” It also says that, “While they make up only 15% of the country’s workforce, Latinos have racked up half the employment gains.”
It goes on to talk about a Latino worker who lost work and found a job with enough money to support his family and buy a house. He states: “I dont smoke, I dont do drugs, Im bilingual…but its not happening.” But that all changed for him. Notice he said, I am bilingual. This has been an important up-coming skill for the last 10 to 20 years, the feds have been predicting it, which is why I am conversationally fluent on an academic level and made sure I took language skill classes for most of my education beginning in middle school and continuing through college. I did not make this up, growing up in Southern California at career days the employers all told us that we must learn a second language and that Spanish was it.
The article points out Latinos are, “the fastest growing segment of the U.S. population,” This is a concern for disenfranchised blacks that are working to compete for the same jobs. Whether you agree or accept it or not this is what is happening in the states listed in the article: “population growth in California, Texas and Florida, but also Ohio and other states.” These issues as I pointed out before would not be something non-ag eastern U.S. states would understand, it is specific to certain states. There is never a one-size fits all solution or conclusion to any one issue for everyone.
In addition, notice that in California how disproportionately high the unemployment rate is here. For blacks it is the worst. What happens is that ag-jobs bring undocumented works, those workers over a period of time 10-20 years have children who are citizens who are educated in US. Those children are bilingual and compete in workforce against non-bilingual workers. The more the increase of Latino citizens, the more demand for a bilingual workforce in all sectors NOT just ag. I am not saying we should not allow them to work, I am saying that it is unfair to my children to not be allowed the same edge. If we are educating Latino children to speak English we should be educating non-Latino children to speak the predominate language and in this case here, it is Spanish as well as English so the work field remains equally competitive.
I do not agree with the article that Latinos, “might be more willing to take low-wage, temporary jobs.” This is so not true for me or any of the black people I live work and fellowship with. This statement in the article speculative and antedotal. I guess I am not the only one who uses them right?? Out here the Human Resources hiring managers are Latinos and they hire their own before they are willing to hire a black person- that is certainly my opinion, of which there is a grain of truth.
Keep in mind that the U.S. Dept. of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, Economic news release admits that the statistics may or may not include undocumented workers, so the number may be further increased due to work completed under the table, not being counted.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.htm
Also, as the article points out, this trend also has political implications and RIPPA although you are gun-ho immigration and I believe everyone should have a right to life liberty and to live decently if they work hard – but you must understand that all immigrants are not kumbaya with other brown skinned immigrants. Your blog platform allows for the possibility of real discussion surrounding these issues. I hope you at least try to make an objective review of the issue I brought up and incite REAL discussion because as you saw NOONE black agreed with blue eyes.
If you really wanted facts you would seek them out instead of just calling someone a liar.

By: RiPPa

RiPPa — Fri, 30 Dec 2011 23:12:00 +0000

Yes!

By: Lorrie

Lorrie — Fri, 30 Dec 2011 23:08:00 +0000

Really RIPPa?? You are going to let a blued eyed wanna-be white Puerto Rican male on your blog call another blogger names and not moderate it? A black woman no less. If I were a white woman someone would have come to my defense a long time ago and you know that is a fact. You have lost all respect in my eyes. It is one thing to have a strong position on the issues and not agree its another thing altogether to allow insults that are uncalled for.

By: Lorrie

Lorrie — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 22:51:00 +0000

Interesting facts by the way…I will be reading more on that in the future.

By: Eddie Blue-Eyes

Eddie Blue-Eyes — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 18:22:00 +0000

You’re not only ignorant, you’re a liar or an illiterate. I cited SEVERAL studies, TWO of which were economic, peer-reviewed analyses. The more you respond here, the more I am convinced that it is your stupidity that that stops you from getting an entry-level position.

By: Lorrie

Lorrie — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 18:05:00 +0000

I know it would be comforting and convienent to put me in a box and assume that I am a tea party activist, that somehow I am paid by the Koch machine to respond to random blogs about non-conservative issues or that I must be a white republican posing as someone black, or that I must hate all immigrants, or I must feel that all immigrants should go back home, or that I dont have compassion and love for the immigrant, or that i dont know my hisorty, or that I dont know whoat brought the immigrants here in the first place, but it would simply be untrue. I am a black woman, an activist, a writer, a single mother of three strong black young men, born of parents born of slaves, parents who are former farmworkers, from a two parent household, raised democrat, will continue to vote for President Barak Obama, supporting many of his policies, I put myself through college (over half was paid for by academic scholarships), I have a strong voice that has been silenced by group think, silenced for fear I would not survive, silenced because I didnt not want to make anyone upset. My boys and I all had dreadlocs at one time because I wanted them to learn to love themselves just as God made them and not accept the belief that they were not good enough because they were not blond, blued eyed with pale skin. I am beautiful and I continue to wear my hair naturally, I refuse to bend to the forces of assimilation – whether you refuse to see it or not and I do not need another woman to define or outline my experience for me. I love my black man, which is one of the reasons why I loved your blog and subscribed to it – I grew up watching School Daze over and over and over again – the site theme I thought was genius. I respect the immigrant, legal and illegal because they are human and deserve basic rights which is why I am a board member of a local organization that champions the rights of farmworkers- I believe they should live decently, with basic healthcare and education, I believe that whole heartedly, but I do not and will not ignore racism, no matter the form when I see it. I am unique, my experiences are unique and we will agree to disagree and I will respectfully end my end of this discussion since I have not found a willingness to understand the various concerns and nuiances that exist in any issue, founded or unfounded. I have been attacked on this blog even in my attempt to be civil and honest and transparent – vulnerable because it is difficult to bring up an issue that has effected you even when you know people wont like it or cannot understand how ironic it is. I did not expect that you would allow BlueEyes to continue to rant and cuss and insult me, but I again, I have not found a brother, so I say all this to say, for now I will walk away.

By: Lorrie

Lorrie — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:35:00 +0000

I hate to say it but your stupid. All empirical evidence and stats are based upon individual surveys, so just because I have not created a studied in a controlled environment to satisfy your obesession with facts from biased studies makes my experiences no less true.

By: Eddie Blue-Eyes

Eddie Blue-Eyes — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 20:09:00 +0000

Oh, let us be clear here: the ONLY one who has posted empirical evidence to back up their assertions has been ME. All this nonsense and you haven’t even been able to post a link or even address the evidence that completely destroys your bigoted worldview.

that I call you a dumb fuck in the process, is just extra.

By: Eddie Blue-Eyes

Eddie Blue-Eyes — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 20:07:00 +0000

Generalizing from “anecdotal” (not antidote) evidence is worthless. In order for your claim to have validity, it must be PROVEN. It must be FACTUAL. For example, I might have a sorry debate with someone who studied in Cali and find the person did a piss-poor job of backing up their claims. ANECDOTALLY, I can say people with Cali degrees are some dumb motherfuckers, but is that a VALID assertion?

This is what you’re doing to a WHOLE group of people. It’s bigoted, narrow-minded and offensive.

I don’t really give a fuck about your personal experiences, but I do care that you’re using your hate to stereotype MY people. From my perspective, you’re no different than a white supremacist, except in that you’re black.